专访特沃罗戈夫兄弟 | Interview of Tvorogov brothers

Aleksey Tvorogov 与 Anton Tvorogov 是来自俄罗斯莫斯科的两位年轻艺术家，他们 1988 年出生于俄罗斯莫斯科，Aleksey 是哥哥，Anton 是弟弟，只比哥哥晚出生 15 分钟。

Anton and Aleksey Tvorogov are artists based in Moscow. They were born in 1988, Aleksey is elder, Anton is younger, and only have 15 minutes difference.

童年时期的 Tvorogov brothers（特沃罗戈夫兄弟）并没有什么特别明确的爱好，画画、运动、舞台剧都参与了很多，如果说最大的爱好可能要数电子游戏了，尤其是需要合作通关的游戏。

特沃罗戈夫兄弟二人考入了不同的大学，分别学习经济学和市场营销，他们都知道这并不是他们喜欢的专业。虽然没有进入艺术学校，但他们总是画画、做雕塑，尽管说过那不是他们的爱好。

Tvorogov brothers didn’t have brightly expressed hobbies when they were kids. They drew a little, acted a little, did sports a little, but didn’t really get into anything. Probably their main hobby was video games, especially cooperative ones.

They entered different universities to study economics and marketing. They both knew it wasn’t truly their way. They didn’t go to art school, but they always drew something, sculpted something, although as they said it wasn’t their passion.

一个重要的日子是他们 21 岁的生日，双胞胎的大哥送给他们一套初学者绘画套装（包括画架、画布、颜料和画笔），大哥显然注意到了他们对艺术的某种渴望，并决定鼓励他们坚持创作。于是在 2010 年，21 岁的特沃罗戈夫兄弟第一次接触到了油画创作。因为只有一套画笔和一个画板，于是他们开始了第一次协同创作。

因为在不同的大学学习，已经有了各自的朋友，并且经常分别画一些不同的作品。但是在 21 岁的那个契机之后，课后他们会花费越来越多的时间聚在一起进行创作，对特沃罗戈夫兄弟来说，有趣的不仅仅是绘画本身，而是一个共同想法的诞生。经过一段时间的联系和磨合后，他们经常能想到一个能激发二人共同灵感的图像。

A significant day was their 21st birthday. Their older brother presented them a set for a beginning artist (1 easel, 1 canvas, a set of paints and brushes). He apparently noticedin them some kind of craving for art and decided to encourage. Thus they saw oil paints for the first time at the age of 21. There was only one canvas and oneeasel in the set and they started painting on it together.

They studied at different universities, and already had different friends, but after studying, they together began to invent something, discuss and paint. It was interesting not so much the painting itself, but the birth of a joint idea, when they came up with an image that would inspire both of them. Before that they always drew something different/separately.

大学毕业之后，他们各自从事自己的专业工作，只在下班后画画。2014 年，25 岁的兄弟二人决定辞掉工作，只专注于艺术。那时候我们没有合作画廊，没有 instagram，没有卖过任何作品，不认识其他艺术家。我们要感谢我们的父母，虽然知道他们很担心我们，但那时候他们没有劝阻我们。 那时候的我们，对艺术并没有特别大的兴趣，只是喜欢两个人一起画画这个活动。

不过渐渐地，我们更深入的了解了当代艺术，并且去了MOMA(莫斯科现代艺术博物馆)的自由工作室学习，我们的创作也渐渐有了起色和一定知名度。开始参加展览，并结识了其他艺术家。感谢社交网络让我们可以与世界各地的人们分享我们的作品，结识朋友，进行交流，并进行联合项目。

After the university they went to work in our specialties, but continued to paint afterwork. And at one point, they quit and decided to focus only on art. They were 25 years old (2014). At that time they didn’t work with galleries, didn’t have Instagram, didn’t sell any works, didn’t have any artists around them. They are grateful to their parents that they did not dissuade them at that time, although they are sure that their parents were worried about them.

At that time they had little interest in art as such, they just liked this activity of ours. But gradually they delved into it, learned about contemporary artists, went to study at ‘Free Workshops’school at MOMA (Moscow Museum of Modern Art). They started participating in shows and met other artists. Social networks allowed them to share our work with a widerange of people around the world, get acquainted with them, communicate and make joint projects.

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▍ 艺术家专访 - Interview of Tvorogov brothers
MZ：毛壮 the editor
AAB：Tvorogov brothers

▍ Q 1 / 11

毛壮：看到你们的脸书在 2019年后就很少更新，2020 年开始更新 Instagram，并且这时候上传的新作品，仿佛风格产生了一些变化。例如都是黑白色调，更多的儿童与卡通元素。这是为什么，有没有什么契机或者故事？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们停止更新脸书，是因为感觉它并不能作为一个艺术平台，更倾向是一个社交和信息平台。

我们的作品并不只有单一的风格，我们曾经花费了很长时间用来研究色彩，我们喜欢为每一幅作品寻找最正确的色彩解决方案。在一段时间里，色彩氛围是我们作品的关键元素。我们在创作中，也会为角色设计很多草图，有时候还会雕刻一些东西作为绘画的参考，以便于更好地理解透视、体积、光影效果等等。渐渐地，我们远离了绘制素描，创作上做了越来越多的雕塑和布面绘画。这个过程的改变，我们使用了更丰富的材料，并且创作过程也变得更有触感，也带给我们更多的自由和更深入的工作沉浸感。此外，我们的作品与角色的联系也变得更加紧密，在这个过程中，我们逐渐发现对于一些图像来说，我们真的不是必须使用色彩，因为色彩给作品增加了额外的一层感觉，有时会使我们分心。

所以说我们作品风格与视觉语言的变化，主要原因是雕塑的实践与运用。通过触觉，我们很快就抓住了角色的基本特征。也可以说，我们“徒手”创作出了笔下的图像。

不过我们并没有一个目标去只创作一种视觉风格的作品，我们也可以同时创作多个不同风格的作品。就例如，带有雕塑感的黑白色调油画，以及纸本的彩色水彩作品。

MZ：I find out that your Facebook stop update at the end of 2019, and start then, the works you upload at Instagram has been a noticeable change, like give up color, more cartoon-like and childhood theme.What happened, and what inspire you to make a difference?

AAB：We stopped Facebook because did not see it as an art platform. Now for us FB is more social and informational platform.

We don’t have a single style in which we work. We worked with color for quite a longtime and we loved searching the right color solutions. Color atmosphere was the key of our works for some period. We did a lot of sketches for a character design also. Sometimes we sculpted something as references for paintings for a better understanding of perspective, volume, light and shadow. Gradually we moved away from drawing, and did more and more sculpting and painting. The process became more tactile, more material. It was a pretty organic way of changing. It gave us more freedom and a deeper immersion into the work. And the connection to the character is much stronger. We found that for some images we don’t really need color, because it creates an additional layer of perception that distracts us.

So the main reason of the change, of the development of our visual language was the sculpting practice. Through the tactile we quickly catch the basic features of the character. We can say that images are literally created by hands.

But we don’t have a goal to stick to one visual style. We can do very different stylistically works in parallel. Now, for example, grayscale oil paintings with a sculptural vibes and little colorful watercolor works on paper.

▍ Q 2 / 11

毛壮：关于这个新的系列有没有什么介绍或者背景故事，作品中的两只小熊有没有名字，是否指代了您们兄弟二人。很多作品中有狩猎的场景，它们是在捕猎还是在做游戏。作品的背景又是什么？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们把这个系列称作“在桌旁的熊”（The bears at the table），画的是两只小熊在桌子旁做着各种普通的事情，我们希望能突出展现作品中的各种日常行为。这个系列是受到日本诗歌（俳句）的启发，它的极简主义、苦行和冥想精神都深深地触动到了我们。我们想表达的就是，非常简单（或看似简单）的事情或简短的陈述，就足以让观众沉浸在作品中，从而激发你的想象力。

我们创作的每一幅画作，作品中的小熊看起来很像，不过它们几乎都不是相同的角色。它们没有名字，因为我们想做的并不是讲故事，而是关于日常的状态。我们的绘画可能在部分观众眼中像是童话故事的片段，风格类似卡通/定格动画/木偶戏，但作品里并没有故事情节。我们喜欢特定的创作动机，但不希望把它们与作品直接联系起来。

我们为作品中的角色都专门制作了雕塑，这会产生一些奇妙的感觉，例如看到他们躺在桌子上，没有腿、破损、并且粘着面包屑与头发，但当我们以它们为原型创作一幅画时，它们又像童话角色一般鲜活的存在着，活着，并且有思想。所以从一方面来说，我们知道这都是我们虚构的角色，但从另一方面来说，我们像是被自己欺骗了，我们相信它们的存在。

即使是它们的作者（也许作者会受到更深的影响），知道它们是虚构角色，也并不会让我们从它们的影响中解脱出来。基于所有这些，对于我们来说，它们无论是在游戏还是在狩猎，或者它们是否有仇敌或猎物并不重要。对我们来说，有机会去思考它们，去想象所有这些事情，去捕捉它们的状态就足够了。

MZ：Please tell us something about the new series with the 2 bears, are they twins too? Do they have names? Are they really hunting or playing games? What kind of world do they live in?

AAB：The last series with the bears we called ‘The bears at the table’. Paintings where bears just do some ordinary things at the table. Everyday actions are highlighted, become the focus of our attention. We are inspired by Japanese poems (haiku). Its minimalistic, ascetic and meditative spirit deeply resonates with us. When very short, simple (or seemingly simple) statement or thing is enough to immerse yourself into the image, to activate your imaginary.

The bears are almost always different. For every painting we create new one, they look alike but different. They don’t have names, bacause it is not about story telling, it is about the state (condition). Paintings may look like fragments of a fairy tale, cartoon/stop motion movie, puppet show. But there is no story line here. We like specific motives, without wishing to connect them into the plot.

All the characters are sculpted as references for paintings and there is a little bit strange feeling about it for us. We see them lying on the table without legs, damaged, with the hair and crumbs sticking to them, but when we create a painting they are really like a fairy tale characters, alive, thoughtful. So from one side we understand it’s fictional but from the other side we are like tricked by ourselves, we believe them.

It maybe concerns all the fictional characters. Knowing that they are unreal does not free you from being affected by them. Even if you are an author of them (maybe you are even more affected as an author). Based on all this for us it does not really matter whether they play or they are hunting, or maybe they have some antagonist. For us it is more than enough to have the opportunity to think about it, to imagine all these things, to catch their state.

▍ Q 3 / 11

毛壮：你们的创作过程，都是从泥塑开始，之后再进行绘画吗？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：每幅作品的创作过程都不尽相同，以往当我们创作平面卡通风格作品时，我们不进行雕刻，只是画线条然后上色。但现在我们主要使用混合技术，角色先用粘土塑造而成，然后用纸、织物等材质来创作道具，之后搭建场景（有时甚至用水来创造河流、湖泊的质感），寻找合适的灯光，然后拍很多照片。我们会在选择一张合适的照片，并在电脑中编辑照片，例如在照片中增加一些元素，有时候还会用到 3D 建模软件来编辑照片，最后在画布上完成作品创作。

所有的创作步骤：包括泥塑、搭建场景、摄影、编辑、绘画都是我们在长期实践中发展出的创作方式，每一步我们都很享受其中。同时，从一个阶段到下一个阶段，我们会不断为作品增加一些特殊的东西，直到最后完成绘画。

MZ：What is your process of creating a painting. Do you always make clay figurines first, then start painting?

AAB：It happens in different ways. When we create cartoon/flat like paintings we don’t sculpt, just draw and then color it. But now we mainly mix techniques, characters are sculpted from plasticine, something is cut from paper or fabric. Sometime we use water to make rivers and lakes. We create a scene, look for suitable lighting, and take a lot of photos. Then we choose one, edit it in a program on the computer, we can draw something, or use 3d modeling programm and then we make a painting.

All the steps (clay sculpting, drawing, photo shooting, editing, painting) are like autonomous practices we love. At the same time they cumulatively add something special from one stage to another, till the final painting.

▍ Q 4 / 11

毛壮：你们作品中无论之前的人物，还是如今的小熊，都创作了很多身体较胖的角色，请问有什么寓意吗？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：有时候取决于动物们原本的形象，例如在自然界中熊本身就是体型庞大的动物。不过主要是靠直觉，当我们进行创作时，我们的意识会告诉我们它们应该是这样的形象。这个问题我们没有明确的答案。我们未来计划中的角色也是非常不同的，既有胖嘟嘟的，也有纤瘦的。

MZ：Whether the human and animals before, or the bears today, I find out the characters in your works are always chubby, are there a background or a story about it, or any meaning?

AAB：Sometimes it depends on the original animal. The bear in nature is quite a massive animal. But mostly it’s something intuitive. When you work on a form, you realize that it should be this way, and not another. We have no definite answer here. We would say there is no strong rule here, we have both chubby/massive and slim characters. The characters we plan for the future are very different.

▍ Q 5 / 11

毛壮：你们的作品是自传体吗，作品中的2只小熊是否象征着两位艺术家，作品想表达什么？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们不觉得这些作品是自传式的，不过当你创作一件雕塑或者一幅画时，你会进入角色的状态，就好像你正在经历作品中的场景。我们的作品大多是日常的场景，所以无论年龄大小，每个人都可能从作品中想象到自己的生活。

MZ：Is your work autobiographical? Are the 2 bears a symbol of your childhood?

AAB：We would not say that the works are autobiographical. But when you work on a painting or sculpture, you move into the state of the character, as if you are experiencing this scene. These are usual scenes in which everyone can imagine themselves, regardless of age.

▍ Q 6 / 11

毛壮：一幅名为《The bear with a photo》的作品，它在看什么？你们的作品一般基于记忆、生活还是想象？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们感觉它在看自己亲近之人或物的照片。我们的作品可以基于记忆、生活片段、幻想所有这些方面，我们更关注的是动机，很简单，但基于某种原因能打动人的瞬间。常常是非常平凡、又非常明显的瞬间，似乎没有什么可以隐藏在那里，但你却感到有些无法用语言形容的情绪在那里。当我们从创作中获得那种感觉的时候，我们就会感到非常快乐。

MZ：There is a work named ‘The bear with a photo’, what is the photo he looking at? Are your works based on everyday life, memory or imagination?

AAB：We think there is someone or something close, dear for him on this photo. Our works can be based on all these things. We are looking for a motive, very simple but touching by some reason. So ordinary and obvious that it seems nothing can hide there, but you feel something unsaid. We are happy when we manage to achieve that feeling from the work.

▍ Q 7 / 11

毛壮：看到你们facebook上一个制作泥塑的视频，好奇你们绘画时如何分工合作，你们一起创作时，会在什么阶段进行简单的沟通吗，还是会非常默契，无需太多沟通就能完美配合完成作品？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们不一起同时创作一件小作品，那个视频是个例外。例如画一幅很大的画，我们会把它分为左右两个部分，每个人各自负责一半的创作。

小尺寸的作品会由我们之中某个人单独完成，但我们创作之前有照片/雕塑作为参考，这个参考物是我们两人都认可同意的，所以对于完成的作品不会有分歧或不愉快。我们在创作过程中都会让对方看一下，然后对是否满意发表一些意见。

我们合作创作中更重要的部分是雕塑，例如，在我们讨论完一幅画的想法后，我们其中一个人开始为它塑型（另一个人这时在为另一幅画作制作泥塑，或者为作品绘制背景、道具等绘画前的准备工作）。在这个过程中，我们会互相展示创作进度，然后思考、更正、注释，并传达给对方进行修改。我们会持续这个过程，直到我们两个人都满意为止。我们是两个人，但作为艺术家，我们是一体的。

MZ：I saw a video in your facebook (https://fb.watch/3dsrcrWvLi/), How do you divide your works when creating paintings and sculptures? Do you communicate when you work together with a art piece, or there are some twins magic?

AAB：We don’t do small things together. This video is an exception. If the painting is large we divide it on right and left part, and each of us works on his part.

Small canvases we paint separately. But we have the photo/sculpture reference which is approved by both of us so there is never unpleasant surprise about what is painted. We only ask each other to look at the work and give a comment whetherhe likes how it is going.

The more important part about working together is sculpting. For example, after we discussed the idea for a painting one of us start sculpting characters for it(the other brother at that time sculpts character for another painting, or drawing background, or cuts trees from paper or doing something else). During the process we show each other the intermediate results, comment and correct, can pass it to each other for editing. We do it untill we both are satisfied. There are two of us, but as an artist we are one.

▍ Q 8 / 11

毛壮：你们在创作时，有没有产生什么分歧，会如何解决？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：分歧是很少发生的。偶尔发生可能是因为涉及到一些很小的事情，例如角色头部的大小，或我们拍照的角度。这时候我们会做一些微调，看看哪个最好，往往最后都可以达成共识。我们在绘画和雕塑上都有相当不同的风格，但在创作过程中，它们会变成一个整体。

MZ：When you working together, do you have anydifferences or contradictions? What are the differences always about? How do you resolve them?

AAB：Disagreements are very rare. This may concern, for example, the size of the character’s heador the angle from which we take the picture. Just make a few variants and see what’s best. It is always possible to come to a common vision. We have rather different styles in drawing and sculpting but in the process it comes to a single piece.

▍ Q 9 / 11

毛壮：如今很多年轻艺术家都受到奈良美智、村上隆、Mark Ryden、KAWS 等艺术家的影响很大，请问你们有哪些喜爱的艺术家，以及对你们的创作产生较大影响的艺术家有哪些

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们也很喜欢这些艺术家，尤其是奈良美智。其他我们喜爱的艺术家包括：Edward Hopper, Alex Katz, 大谷工作室, Peter Doig, Klara Kristalova, Rinus Van de Velde, Trey Abdella, TIDE, Anna Park, Danica Lundy, Szabolcs Bozo, Salman Toor 等等。

其他艺术家的作品是会给我们一些启发，但影响我们最深的大部分都来自其他文化领域，例如电影、卡通、电子游戏、复古插图，尤其是是一些书籍插图，例如来自俄罗斯插画家 Ivan Bilibin（1876-1942）, Yuri Vasnetsov（1900-1973）的插图作品。

MZ：I talk to many young artists before, and they’ve been inspired by artists like Takashi Murakami, Yoshitomo Nara, Mark Ryden, Kaws and so on. Who are your favorite artists? And who have influenced your works before?

AAB：We love these artists too, especially Yoshitomo Nara. We have a lot of favorite artists. Edward Hopper, Alex Katz, Otani Workshop, Peter Doig, Klara Kristalova, Rinus Van de Velde, Trey Abdella, TIDE, Anna Park, Danica Lundy, Szabolcs Bozo, Salman Toor and many many more.

Artists inspire us and impress. But the more influence goes from the other culturalfields. Movies and cartoons, video games, old illustrations especially books illustration (Ivan Bilibin, Yuri Vasnetsov).

▍ Q 10 / 11

毛壮：我们平时很少接触到来自俄罗斯的年轻艺术家，请问您能否推荐一些来自俄罗斯的年轻艺术家？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：我们很喜欢的俄罗斯艺术家有 Evgeny Antufiev、Ivan Gorshkov、Aleksey Martins、Dima Rebus、Anatoly Akue 等。 MZ：We know less about young artists from Russia. Can you introduce us some great young artists from Russia? AAB：We like Evgeny Antufiev, Ivan Gorshkov, Aleksey Martins, Dima Rebus, Anatoly Akue and many more.

▍ Q 11 / 11

毛壮：2021年有什么创作、展览的计划？

特沃罗戈夫兄弟：今年会有一些个展与群展计划。此外，今年还计划创作更多的雕塑作品。

MZ：Any plan for 2021?

AAB：We plan solo and group shows for this year. And we are going to make more sculptures than last year.

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▍ More works

图片 Photo | Aleksey and Anton Tvorogov
社交媒体 Instagram | @tvorogov.brothers
编辑 Edit | 毛壮 Mao Zhuang
link on wechat：https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/_D5B91K7szojToZjhJeVcA